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wd: I must admit to my utter and complete disappointment when I reached the end of Lover Awakened and discovered the Lover Revealed excerpt featured a Brotherhood hero who was no Brother at all: Butch. Why would Ward do that to us, I wondered. Why would she kill this really great thing she has going? The Black Dagger Brotherhood series is driven by some of the most over-the-top alpha heroes in all of romanceland. There's Rhage, whose beast within isn't so proverbial; there's the emotionally twisted and wrecked Zdasdist, Wrath the blind king of vampires, and fans of the series adore them. But, Butch? Butch was just a human. No more, no less (and according to Ward's own mythology: once a human, always a human). Butch, the rough-around-the-edges cop, the new-to-the-vampire-world friend of the Brothers had been a great authorial device for Ward: a likeable secondary character whose greatest strength was the contrast he provided the vampires. In another universe, one not made up of leather clad, 6 foot 6, eons old vampires, Butch might even be hero material, but with the tattooed and mysterious Vishous or the beautiful, yet damaged, Phury around, waiting for their shining moment, it seemed Butch was destined to stay in his secondary role.

What great writers know, however, is that secondary characters are only secondary when they're in someone else's story and that they are the heroes of their own tale. So does Ward pull this off? Does she effectively and convincingly show Butch to be the hero of his own story? Or is he forever overshadowed by the Brotherhood?

hk: Like you, before digging in I found the idea of Butch as the male lead troublesome. In prior Brotherhood installments, Butch played a role but not one that shouted "look at me" when he entered a room. In part, this stemmed from the fact that, as a human, Butch did not function as an intrinsic part of the Brotherhood or have the same bond and rough alpha characteristics of the vampires who go by shortened names like Z and V. Which highlights the fact Butch also lacked the over-the-top, charge-to-battle name of the members of the Brotherhood... After reading Lover Revealed, my feelings of Butch as being less interesting remain the same. That is not to say he is uninteresting. Rather, he lacks the spotlight feel that the other males, even males who have not yet played the hero, have here. Despite that, my appreciation for Ward's ability to take a seemingly bland character (by comparison to the Brotherhood most male characters would fall short) and breath life into him is enormous. Butch does not linger in the background of Lover Revealed as he has in the rest of the series. He moves to the forefront, as is expected of a hero, and is fleshed out with a back story replete with a dysfunctional family background, stories about his years of hard living, and a rock hard loyalty to the Brotherhood, in general, and to Vishous.

But, while Ward manages to give Butch the larger-than-life feel he needs to stand here and, in fact, "makes" him physically larger at one point, the journey to that end is a bumpy one. In order to make Butch more important to the story he must, in a sense and in reality, become more important. In this case, that means sacrificing his humanity. This is how Butch reaches his happy ending. But in light of the world Ward has built through consistent pieces of information regarding the history of the Brotherhood and the manner in which individuals become vampires - through the change and through bloodlines - this road from unhappy human to integral member of The Brotherhood lacks the supreme satisfaction of previous books in the series. This combined with Butch's family history, one that is clear to the reader but not divulged in a satisfactory way until the final end of the book, takes some of the spark away from what has gone before.

Having said that, I raced through Lover Revealed with the same enthusiasm and excitement as I did for Ward's previous Brotherhood installments. The need to keep reading, to turn each page, was as strong here as in the past. So, what is it about Butch, about his story and his part in the series, that makes him compelling?

wd: Butch is compelling -- if lacking the dynamic, wow-factor quality of the Brothers -- simply because Ward is so masterful at keeping her characters in conflict. There isn't a moment of peace, a lull, for any of the characters throughout the 455 pages of this book. Internally, Butch constantly fights against his feelings of inadequacy and not belonging. That feeds into his insecurities about his love for Marissa. As a mere human he's not enough for her: he can't keep her safe, he's not as strong as she is, he can't feed her, there's an issue of her life span being longer than his and, I think, readers know Ward will find some loophole for that. Externally, as in not on an emotional front, the piece of the Omega festering in Butch's belly is a ticking clock that could make him evil, just like a lesser. And, there is the family conflict you mentioned (which I agree, was unsatisfactory in its delivery). It's all enough to keep the pages turning.

Then too, there is Ward's storytelling structure of leaving one character's POV at a critical moment and switching to another character, another storyline. I am as interested in reading Mr. X's sections, for example, to know what's going on with him (this time around Mr. X searches for the prophesied end of the Omega and by extension the end of Mr. X's torment), as I am simply as a way to get back to the main story. Ward has a lot of characters to move between: Butch, Marissa, Vishous, Mr. X, Rehvenge, John, the new lesser recruit Van, we even, unnecessarily, get into Butch's sister's head; and, as I said, they are all in conflict with themselves, or their environment, or ideally both. This multiple POV structure keeps many fires burning on many fronts and makes it impossible to put the book down.

Now I'm going to plainly say something that I don't think you're trying to hide: you hate Marissa. Why?


hk: Hate is too strong. Confused by her is more precise. Marissa comes from royal blood. She has duties and one of those is to find a proper mate. Butch, the human with his drug-using past and rough living present is not anyone's pick for Marissa. But, she loves him and he loves her - that much is never in question here. But, after mourning her inability to find a true mate and then coming to realize Butch is that mate, Marissa then throws up roadblocks to a romance that to everyone reading along sees is one etched in destiny. It reads like a black moment without any black in it. It's this not-quite-wishy-washy yet emotionally damaged combination that, while real in the sense that we all know women with this personality, falls short of what I expect for an eternal mate of a Brother.

Frankly, this is not the first time a female in a Ward book failed to shine as strong as her male counterpart. Ward excels at building these incredible alpha males who overshadow everyone else. With these guys as a comparison, the women's complexity gets lost. For me, Marissa even more so. Once the romance turns a corner, Marissa then chooses to hid behind a very standard argument in romance novels of "I love you too much to watch you put yourself in danger" which, by extension since these two are supposed to be soul (or soulless) mates, carries with it an "I'd rather be alone by choice than by your death" illogic. Following this pseudo-conflict to its end, Marissa ends up alone but by being the martyr she gets to be alone and lonely.

This isn't a new theme, but it's one that stumbled for me this time around. Marissa should be smarter or something... or am I alone in having heroine issues here?

wd: Hate maybe too strong for you now, but it is the term you've used in regards to Marissa in the past. Though your basic argument against her is unchanged. I've always found Marissa...unexciting. I actually really like the idea of her blue blood status juxtaposed to Butch's working class roots. Two characters from different worlds is standard issue romance fair and never something I tire of. That said, I've never liked the way their romance has played out. The roadblocks you point out are of the resolved-within-a-conversation sort, and frustration quickly intrudes because it takes too long for Marissa and Butch to have that conversation.

While I agree with you that Lover Revealed is another example of Ward's hero overshadowing the heroine, I actually thought Marissa came a bit further and changed more than past heroines. Given, her arc is considerably more subtle and muted than Butch's, perhaps it's easy to miss, but it's there. In past books, we've seen heroines who start out independent and throughout the course of the story, become completely dependent on the hero. Marissa, on the other hand, starts out pliant and dependent on her brother, Havers, on Rehvenge, even on the aristocracy she hates, and by book's end, she's made a stand not only for herself, but for all legally and politically vulnerable unmated female vampires. For me, Marissa, as a woman, standing up for other women, was a huge milestone in a series that is built around an overtly sexiest male-vampires-are-strong-female-vampires-are-weak mentality. That raised my respect for her -- and by extension Ward's choices -- even as I wanted Marissa to grow up emotionally to match Butch in their relationship.

I was, however, troubled by what I saw as other reoccurring themes. Lover Revealed is the fourth installment of the Black Dagger Brotherhood series and that ongoing universe, therefore by necessity and design, continuing storylines and world building elements return. But there is something about familiarity that breeds contempt. There were many times during this read wherein constructs that worked for me before, such as the Brothers relationships with one another, rang a bit hollow for me this time. With previous books I loved their banter, with Lover Revealed I couldn't suspend my disbelief on how men actually speak to one another. I also struggled with the echoes of previous books. Ward repeats herself with Butch's loss of memory following the torture at Mr. X's hands echoing Bella's similar loss of memory after being tortured by the same lesser. And too, Butch and Marissa are another couple who -- at least initially -- need to seek a form of fulfillment outside the bonds of their couplehood. For me, Marissa needing to feed from Rehvenge was too similar to Wrath's need of Marissa's blood before Beth's change, or the way Rhage needed to have sex with women besides Mary (and then later, they too had a blood/feeding issue). Elements that were once fresh and original, with repetition, now seem neither. This made me wonder, is Ward's dynamic universe a victim of its own success?

hk: I will admit to engaging in previous Marissa bashing. But, as you point out, she does redeem herself in Lover Revealed. She manages to step outside her insular world and step up to all those who spend so much time trying to protect her. If only the romantic conflict were as rich... However, one area in which Ward rarely falters is world building. She creates a vampire world with eccentricities and characteristics all its own, rising above many of the read-it-before pitfalls of her writing brethren. In general terms, her Lessers-versus-vampires world, the epic battle between good and evil where the players on each side are not necessary clear, complete with the hormone-enhanced Brotherhood and the caste system it thrives within, stand as examples of how to develop an alternate society while making it believable and utterly relatable.

But...as you point out, visiting this world over and over highlights some bits and pieces that, while okay on a book-by-book basis, lose some of their shine in bulk. Specifically, the manner in which the members of Brotherhood speak to each other - in sort of a mod shorthand - and the way they relate to each other, many times with sexualized overtones that do not ring true to heterosexual male friendships, even deep ones, are the most obvious question marks here. Yet, in the confines of this Brotherhood world those oddities do not weigh down the story because Ward remains consistent to her vision. She set up the world and the rules. If some of the less convincing parts of that world feel over-emphasized, that likely is a testament to the deep connection Ward establishes between the Brotherhood and her readers. Would I care about repetition of, or focus on, phrases like, "Do you feel me, my Brother?" if I didn't pour through these books, reading non-stop until all 400 plus pages are done? Maybe not.

All of that me wonder, was your argument here with the Brotherhood universe, the plot or the characters? To the extent something failed to spark with you as it had in previous installments, was it a piece or the whole?

wd: I think I chaffed against an overall let's-move-on-and-see-something-new-already feeling I got from the repetitive plot elements I mentioned previously and too, Ward's micro and macro level choices that kept certain story elements spinning in place instead of moving forward. The epic battle between good and evil, Brotherhood and lessers, you speak of, for example, didn't have contested ground in this installment. There was nothing won or lost between good and evil because nothing was at stake. There wasn't a threat beyond the already-established lesser goal of killing vampires. Mr. X did his self loathing thing, the Brothers killed random lessers, but, again, both happened without greater consequences or, I felt, an advancement of this war. After the Omega leaves a piece of himself in Butch, Butch has the ability to destroy lessers without their souls returning to the Omega. Apparently, this could eventually be the end for the Omega, but as he is the series' big baddy, Butch's new-found skill doesn't have much impact on this chapter and as such the storyline felt more like Ward was setting up for future stories than building drama and conflict for this one.

I felt similarly about John's storyline. There are plenty of pages devoted to his pre-change broody, angsty self, yet no real forward motion with his story. It all felt like set up.

All that is not say the book is entirely retread or momentumless material. We get to know the most mysterious of the Brothers, Vishous, a bit better than we had previously. What a revelation he is! From the retreat of his visions, to the advancement of his healing power, to his sexual peccadilloes (the boy likes it kinky), Vishous' time on the page whets the appetite for his starring turn in the next book, Lover Unbound. He also plays a significant role in Butch's story as Butch's confidant, often times savior, and...partner in some blatant homoerotism that stops shy of sex. But not by much.

Within the Brothers' world there's always been a lot of these guys being naked around one another, and, as you point out, a lot of sexual overtones in their speech, if of a hetero nature. But what passes between Vishous and Butch takes it a step farther because of the emotions involved. Did you think this is how their friendship had to play out?

hk: The Butch-Vishous attachment drives the non-romance portions of Lover Revealed. What exactly the attachment is turns out to be the larger question. Calling it a friendship seems to shallow. How many men do you know lock eyes or taste one another (through a third party)? These are not the usual guys-as-pals rituals. Their kinship is unusual. It's one the fellow members of the Brotherhood accept without question, but one that might make alpha males reading these books squirm a bit in discomfort.

That is not to suggest there is a sexual attraction between Butch and Vishous. Not in the traditional homosexual sense, anyway. Rather, the bond is something else and something greater than physical sex. Though heavy on sexual symbolism and a lingering sensuality, it is a male/male relationship forged in a deep and unique sense of loyalty. Through Vishous, we see Butch's tenderness with Marissa. Vishous approves of the match. He envies its openness. Is confused by its tenderness. Craves it on some level he does not explore, but one that is likely to play a role in his book. So, the fact Butch and Vishous' relationship needed to follow this path is clear in the sense that Ward telegraphs that need. Giving the friendship - or whatever you want to call it - the unusual aspects she does here, she offers an insight into Vishous prior to introducing him as the upcoming Lover Unbound.

At least I hope that's true...

In addition to the Brotherhood and the women who love its members, we have John and Mr. X and a host of secondary characters. Another actor also steps forward and plays a larger role both in terms of the romance and in terms of the direction Butch's life takes. The mysterious Scribe Virgin. Wrath seeks her permission. Others seek her help. She blesses the union of Butch and Marissa and, like Vishous, foresees that union long before Butch and Marissa do. Did the Scribe Virgin's role here fit with your expectations and the world you understood before Lover Revealed?

wd: The Virgin Scribe is a controversial figure for many readers of the series, but not for me...until this installment. After Lover Eternal, there was a lot of talk from readers who felt short changed by the Virgin's easy fix of Rhage and Mary's happily ever after. Truth be told, I was so in love with that book, I never even noticed the poof-now-everything's-great ending. Lover Revealed I'm not so in love with and now I'm noticing. She shows up several times in Lover Revealed to act in a way that is contrary to what Ward tells us about her (she's supposed to be fearsome and willing to strike vampires dead for the slightest misstep, yet she takes a lot of lip from Butch) and simply makes things too easy for all involved. At the book’s climax when Butch finally comes face to face with the Omega, an event that is built to for hundreds of pages, the showdown doesn’t happen because the Virgin Scribe appears out of thin air and basically says boo to the Omega. I too often found her to be a too easy and too convenient fount of knowledge and the ultimate backup to make everything ok. In short for a series that asks readers to suspend a tremendous amount of disbelief (while largely never allowing the reader to feel the weight of that request), the Virgin Scribe is the one element I simply didn’t buy into.

I have to say that finally, I’m disappointed in this entry to the series. Admittedly, Lover Revealed started in a hole for me because of the hero and heroine, but I really did think Ward was capable of working some magic and making their story just at compelling as Rhage and Mary’s or Zsadist and Bella’s. I had hope that she would, but I don’t think she did. Now, I hope she’ll rebound with Vishous.

Coming in with the same low expectations, did you like this book more or less than you anticipated? And how do you compare Lover Revealed, or even the entire series, to other romances?

hd: This installment is my least favorite, but that is a bit like saying it's my least favorite potato chip...and I love all potato chips. Lover Revealed, like the books in the series before it, hooked me from page one. I read. And read. And read. My issues here were with a romance conflict that rang a bit hollow and main characters who were less compelling than other players in the Brotherhood saga. Could be that I'm so excited for other stories, such as those of Vishous, Phury and Rehvenge, that the mere idea of this one being the new one was a bit of a disappointment. In many ways Ward avoided my concerns and delivered another powerful tale. In a few ways, she did not. Whether or not the latter matters in a global sense is a different question since I savored every page of Lover Revealed, re-read it once I finished, and am now breathless for Vishous' story. Seems to me, that's exactly the sort of devotion Ward hopes to create in her readers. She has in me.

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